Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Hi, everyone, this is Dawn Clem, and you are on my podcast, Milkweed and monarchs.
[00:00:07] Today I'm going to be speaking with you about one of my patients named David.
[00:00:16] I met David during his last leg of his journey with terminal brain cancer. He was 35 years old when I met him.
[00:00:27] He really didn't even need a navigator. He had been navigating his illness by himself for the last eight years, which, when I think about it, that is pretty amazing.
[00:00:43] He had researched every treatment, every physician, surgeon, oncologist that he thought would be worth his while to meet and to have treatment with. So he had been in Texas, MD Anderson, that's a great oncology organization, healthcare organization, and he had also been in California.
[00:01:13] He didn't mind traveling to the treatment, whatever was going to keep him going.
[00:01:20] When he was first diagnosed, they told him he would be lucky to live five years. He was 27 years old at the time.
[00:01:30] It was not going to happen that way for David.
[00:01:34] He was his own warrior, his own navigator, so he just kept pushing through.
[00:01:43] They told him that he should not get married, but he fell in love and he got married.
[00:01:50] They told him he'd never be able to have children because he had been through chemotherapy and treatment.
[00:01:59] But he had three daughters with his now widow.
[00:02:07] He was a fighter.
[00:02:11] And he even wrote a book about how he found out about his illness and his experience with terminal brain cancer. It's called thank you, kung fu. If any of you are ever interested in reading his story, it's quite remarkable.
[00:02:33] At the time when I met David, I was going through my own personal journey. So we were like journeying through each of our own situations at the same time. I don't know if that brought us closer, but there was something about us being kindred spirits.
[00:03:00] My mom had been diagnosed with terminal pancreatic cancer at that time.
[00:03:06] Oh, that was so really such a kick in the gut for me, especially since I was an oncology nurse. And I'll never forget being at her bedside when the doctor told her, there's no way you could go through chemotherapy.
[00:03:24] It would kill you. And the truth is, my mom was a small woman. She barely weighed 110 pounds and she was probably 4ft eleven. She had been little all her life. So to think about her at 85 years old, going through chemotherapy, it wasn't going to work.
[00:03:51] It was so hard for me to get hospice involved. And my mom, I had moved up to my house, so she was living with us, and hospice was coming in to see her weekly.
[00:04:04] Hospice is coming to see my mom. But I had been a hospice nurse much of my career in one form or another. So it was just a surreal experience for me at that time.
[00:04:23] I really didn't know how I was going to get through it. I was just taking it day to day. So I'm still working as a navigator with terminally ill patients, and my mom is terminally ill at home in my house.
[00:04:42] I had a brother at that time, and my brother said he would be more than happy to take my mom home with him.
[00:04:51] He lived in northern Michigan, and it was about a five hour drive. And that was really heart wrenching for me, too. I don't know if you know, I had spent so much time with my mom.
[00:05:10] She actually helped me raise my daughter. She was just an integral part of my family.
[00:05:16] And it was so hard for me to let her go, for me to be able to share her with my brother.
[00:05:25] But I did understand that my brother was retired from working and I was still working. And it did make the most sense for her to really go up there.
[00:05:38] We made the long journey in the car to take her up, my husband and I, to northern Michigan, where she would live out her last days.
[00:05:49] And I kept saying things to her like, if you change your mind, if things are not going well, mom, just call me. I'm gonna come and get you. And she kept saying back to me, dawn, everything is gonna be fine. Everything is gonna be fine.
[00:06:06] So I think we took her up there in September, and then she ended up dying in October. So she was probably only up there six weeks, and then she passed away.
[00:06:23] And that was really hard for me, but she was comfortable at that time, and so it was just hard to lose your mother. I'm sure all of you listening have lost someone in your life that means a lot to you, too. And loot. Loss is such grief.
[00:06:45] Well, the one thing my mom left behind was her commitment to her religious beliefs.
[00:06:58] And she had always gone to church. Her grandfather was a minister, and seven of his brothers were ministers.
[00:07:06] Her grand. My grandma or her mom was very religious. And I told you how I went to Bible school there every summer without fail.
[00:07:16] So my mom had become a Presbyterian in when she turned 50 and I was 25. I actually bought her dress when she got confirmed and became a member of the presbyterian church. And I came home because I was living in England at the time. I came home to Michigan to be there for her during that special day. So it was a big deal.
[00:07:47] And she was really quite involved with the church from that time forward, and she really had a strong faith. Very strong faith.
[00:07:59] So when our family moved back to Michigan, to make it easier for my mom, before she was ever diagnosed or anything like that, we moved back here to be closer to her. And then, and she was happier about it, too. She would come every year during the school year and help me out with my daughters and then come home for the summer. But she really was tired of going to New England. She wanted me to come home, and I hadn't lived in Michigan since I was 19 years old.
[00:08:37] So at the age of 51, I finally moved back to Michigan, and she was so happy. I was still 2 hours away from her, so she would still come up for all the holidays, but she didn't have to come for as long. Now she could be in her own home, and I could go down there and visit her too, and have a little break myself. So it was working out well for both of us.
[00:09:01] But the one thing that she talked about me, to me over and over again, was that I needed to have a church. She was really, really adamant that that is something that I needed to really look into when I went back home to where she lived. I went to church with her every Sunday that I was there, and I went for all the holidays with her, and my daughters did too, and my husband many times if he was with us. So it was a big family event, and she just thought it was important that my daughters be raised with religious training and that I needed to have a church.
[00:09:45] So after she died, I decided now is the time to get a church. Isn't that terrible? I mean, we had kind of been looking around when she moved up here, but we never really found a church that we felt comfortable with.
[00:10:03] So we finally put her to rest, and I had time to start looking for a church that I thought would suit me. And my oldest daughter was interested as well. So we started to go to local churches in our area to see if they were a good fit. I had been baptized as a congregationalist when my husband and I got married, so I was looking for a congregational church, and we do have one here in the town I live in, but it just didn't feel right. I was looking for that feeling that when I walked in, I was going to feel like I was home. That's what I kept saying to myself.
[00:10:57] So we visited many churches over the course of probably three or four months, my daughter and myself, and finally we found a church in the city that we thought would be pretty good. And we went a couple times, my daughter and myself, and then I ended up going to that church alone a couple times by myself, and every time I was there, I absolutely loved the sermon.
[00:11:33] I loved the church. Beautiful old church.
[00:11:37] It was just seemed like such a great place to feel a community with. So I was convinced that this was going to be the church for us. And my daughter felt similarly to me at that time.
[00:11:57] So we made the moves to meet with the church council and tell them that we were interested in becoming members.
[00:12:09] And at that same time, there were six other people that were also interested in becoming members at the same time.
[00:12:21] So it was kind of exciting, and we were having a really good time with it. And we were getting tours of the church, and they were holding luncheons for us, and we were getting to know the members of the church and the council. Of the church and the minister.
[00:12:40] They were in the process of looking for a new minister, but the minister they had at that time was really great, very nice woman. So we were going through all that with them, and we would have to have several meetings with them and be interviewed to see if we were going to be a good fit for the congregation. So it's not just you picking the church, the church has to pick you as well.
[00:13:06] So I could really envision myself in this church. I really could. I was feeling really good about it.
[00:13:15] And we went to a meeting, all the new candidates to become members with their council, and they asked us a bunch of questions, and we were there for a couple of hours, you know, getting to know everyone. And at the end of that meeting, they, they said, well, we would like to invite all of you to become members of this church.
[00:13:43] And we, all of us were excited. We were elated about it because we felt like it was such a great fit for all of us. And it was going to be something special to remember my mom by. I thought, she's in heaven looking down on me, saying, finally, it's about time. I am so happy, you know? And so I felt good about that, that I was going to carry on what my mom had wanted me to do.
[00:14:17] So they sent out a invitation to us on the day to come to church to be announced as new members of the church.
[00:14:33] And we are really excited. We got dressed up, and my husband and my other daughter were going to come and be in the audience so that they could be there for us, to support us during this big time for myself and my oldest daughter.
[00:14:52] And we go through the church sermon that day, and then we're invited to stand up in front of the church. When we stood up in front of the church, I remember thinking, wow, there are so many people here today.
[00:15:09] This is great. Everybody came out to meet the new. The new members of the church. I was really impressed, and I thought, yes, I definitely have made the right decision. This is the right church for me.
[00:15:29] So the introductions are made, and then we say a prayer, and then the minister goes to the podium, or the.
[00:15:39] It's not really a podium. They have another name for it. But anyhow, she goes and stands in front of the microphone, and she says, normally, after we've had new membership introductions to the congregation, we would dismiss church. And then we would go out front and have coffee and mingle with people so everyone could get to know the new members personally on a better, more personal level. But today, that's not what's going to happen. And I was like, what?
[00:16:19] Wait a minute. What? What did she just say? I mean, really, I was shocked. That was completely shocking to me. And I could tell the other members of the church were feeling the same way. The new members, we were all standing up there in front of everyone, and none of us knew that there was a change in plans. We had no awareness of it.
[00:16:46] And then she said, all of you may go and sit down now. The whole time I'm thinking, what in the heck is going on here? This is so strange.
[00:16:57] I go back down with my daughter, and we sit with my husband and my other daughter, and the minister proceeds to talk, and she starts talking about an incident that has occurred two years ago, two years before us becoming new members. Okay?
[00:17:21] Apparently, the minister that was there at the time had had an affair with the woman that was doing the children's program.
[00:17:34] And so she was confirming that in front of the church members, saying, so the fact of the matter is, we've done this investigation. And yes, it really is true. The minister did have an affair with the woman that was teaching the children's program.
[00:17:56] And in fact, she did become pregnant, and her baby is his baby.
[00:18:05] The whole time. I can't even. I don't even know how to describe this. The whole time I am just sitting there speechless.
[00:18:16] I can't even go there. I thought about the story so many times. I'm like, God, what were you trying to tell me? Was, what was the message behind this? Okay.
[00:18:29] So they went on to say, we're going to be having special meetings during the weeks coming in the evening. For any of you that have been with the church for a long time and have questions about how we found out the investigation, what's going on, that kind of thing, if you're just troubled by what happened. Please come and share your feelings. Please come to these meetings. Does anybody have any questions, or does anybody want to talk about anything associated with this scenario?
[00:19:13] Nobody raised their hand and nobody said a word.
[00:19:18] I mean, it was stone silence. Literally stone silence in that church.
[00:19:27] I was just trying in my head to make sense of what the heck had just happened.
[00:19:35] I didn't really know what I thought about the whole thing.
[00:19:40] I really had no idea.
[00:19:44] So after about 20 minutes of her talking and explaining everything, she dismissed church for the day.
[00:19:52] So I get up, and, I mean, we were sitting in the front row, so everybody, we were going to be the last to leave the church. And I had gotten up finally and was making my way out of the church, and lo and behold, who was standing there but David and his wife and his daughters?
[00:20:24] And I was so happy to see him. I was so happy to see him because I wanted to ask him, what the heck is happening here? What is this? Did I miss something? You know, this is supposed to be new membership day. Why would this happen like this, you know? So I make my way back to him, and he's like, oh, my gosh, dawn, this was the best day for us to see your smiling face in front of the congregation. I was just so happy to see you up there. You don't know what it means to me to have you be a member of my church.
[00:21:09] And I gave him a big hug, and I gave his wife a big hug. And of course, I talked to the little girls. And then I stood up and I looked at him and I said, what was that all about, David, that is the weirdest thing I've ever been through in my entire life. He said, don, I understand, but just to be fully honest and be. Give you full disclosure, the woman that they're talking about is my sister.
[00:21:44] Wow.
[00:21:47] Wow, wow, wow.
[00:21:50] Okay.
[00:21:52] Wow.
[00:21:54] I didn't even know what to say, but he finished talking. He said, this happened two years ago. She did have a baby, but she left the church, and she moved to Pennsylvania. And the minister left the church, and he is with her in Pennsylvania.
[00:22:16] So I'm thinking to myself, two years ago, this happened. And they're just now talking about it now.
[00:22:26] And the other thing that I just could not get over and it weighed on me so much is here is David fighting terminal brain cancer, and they're talking about his sister in front of him, in front of everyone.
[00:22:52] That church.
[00:22:54] I mean, I understand what she did is wrong. I get it, but it just seemed like it was not the place to do that.
[00:23:06] So I really had to go home after all that and process the information.
[00:23:17] And I had to think about how I really felt about that church at that time.
[00:23:24] I had to really, really reimagine how I was going to fit into that church. I didn't know.
[00:23:34] So I went home.
[00:23:36] My daughter and I were in a complete state of shock, and I asked my husband, what on earth did you think about all of that, you know? And we came to a couple of conclusions on our own, which I didn't talk to anyone at the church. I hadn't even been there as a member.
[00:24:02] And so I didn't really want to get into it with somebody from the church. I just didn't want to.
[00:24:10] But I couldn't help but feel like what they did was almost like a public shaming.
[00:24:19] That's how it felt.
[00:24:21] I mean, I know you don't have to keep things quiet, but it had been two years, so that was just a whole nother thing to me. Like what? Why are we going into all of this right now? I don't understand.
[00:24:37] It's not like it had been something that had happened recently.
[00:24:43] But my bigger thing really was that David was an active member of that church. He. He didn't do anything wrong. And I get that he and his wife were just good as gold. I can't say enough about either one of them, but what I.
[00:25:04] It just didn't feel like they were.
[00:25:11] They even understood what he was going through in his own personal journey.
[00:25:19] I don't know. It just did not sit well with me at all. At all, in any way.
[00:25:28] I just felt like they didn't show him the compassion and the empathy that I would have liked them to show to someone who's dying of a terminally terminal brain cancer.
[00:25:45] And I went home every night from work thinking about this story and what had gone on. The other thing that I thought that really kind of bothered me is they never told us, the new membership, that something like this was going to happen. And we were totally unprepared for it. Completely unprepared. And how I felt was they had used new membership as a way of filling up the church that day so that everyone was there when they made that announcement.
[00:26:27] I don't know. I could be wrong about that, but I had been there so many other times, and the church was never full. And they had sent out a bulletin saying that new members were going to be there that day. Please come and meet the new members.
[00:26:47] So I don't know if they had sent out a separate memo saying, oh, and by the way, we're going to be talking about something that may be upsetting to all of you. I don't know. I don't know. Because we were just getting inducted in as new members.
[00:27:04] But it definitely felt like that was a guise to get the church filled up that day. And it felt ugly. Ugly is the only word that I can use when I think about that day.
[00:27:22] I had to think about it for a long time.
[00:27:27] I never went back to the church.
[00:27:30] Never went back again. I couldn't do it.
[00:27:34] I just had this loyalty to David.
[00:27:38] I had loyalty to him. He was such an incredible human being.
[00:27:45] I mean, he wasn't upset that day, but I was upset for him and his family.
[00:27:55] His sister had made her choices. It's true.
[00:28:00] And how I think, and, you know, when he talked to me, he's like, she moved away. She doesn't even live here. So that was the other thing. I mean, they're already gone. They're gone. They've been gone. They've been gone for two years. Why are you bringing this up now? I just couldn't understand any of it. And I couldn't go back to the church. I could not go back to the church.
[00:28:27] I talked to David about it when he came into the office for an appointment, and I think he was actually, emotionally, he felt so good that someone had his back. I think that's how it felt for him.
[00:28:50] He felt like I cared about him, that he was my focus, not some affair that had happened in a church where they were going to publicly shame them.
[00:29:05] People make mistakes all the time. You would think a church would be the place where they are forgiven, but it didn't feel like that when they were making that announcement.
[00:29:16] I don't think they're the only minister and Sunday school teacher that I've ever had an affair.
[00:29:25] And I'm not saying that it's right or that I condone it, but what I condone is sharing your public business in front of a brother who's fighting for his life.
[00:29:45] That's what I just. I just couldn't, like, deal with it.
[00:29:50] So, anyhow, that was. That brought David and I even closer, I think.
[00:29:58] And I definitely became such a strong advocate for him.
[00:30:06] He lived for two and a half more years, and now, instead of him going out on his own to find doctors or physicians that he thought could give him something new to look at, I would help him with that. If he went back to Texas for treatment, I would make sure he had mris at our facility so that he could go down there with everything already being done.
[00:30:42] I did whatever I could from that day forward to help him with the end of his life.
[00:30:53] He ended up dying on the 4 July.
[00:30:58] He was born in October and he died in July.
[00:31:04] So he was 38 years old when he died. And he had had a terminal brain tumor for eleven years.
[00:31:15] He had started out his diagnosis, doing everything but conventional medicine.
[00:31:23] He had gone to chinese medicine, he had taken herbs. He had done so many different things, and then he had found a surgeon that could actually remove the tumor. It was in a difficult spot, so that part was really hard for him. So a lot. He had navigated his whole entire case by himself until he met me. And I think we actually bonded over our experience with the church, and I was able to give him the best navigation services he could have at the end of his life, I really hated to see him go.
[00:32:16] He was. He was a one of a kind.
[00:32:27] When I think about this story in this amazing person, David, I can't help but think about kindness changes everything.
[00:32:45] I don't feel like he got the kindness that he deserved. He was so independent in his life.
[00:32:54] He even took on his disease independently, and he wrote a book about it. I mean, it's just amazing what he did.
[00:33:06] I don't think he was nurtured until he met his wife, Lori. And they were just. I mean, it was wonderful, but I. I could not do my podcast without paying my respects to him.
[00:33:28] Thomas Jefferson died on the 4 July, and he was an independent thinker, and he was a remarkable man. And that's how I'm always gonna think of David, that he died on the same day that Thomas Jefferson did, and fireworks were going off everywhere because he had made it straight to heaven.
[00:33:57] And really, kindness changes everything.
[00:34:07] I hope you enjoyed my story today.
[00:34:10] I know it's kind of a different one. I try to bring you things that might inspire you or make you think about journeys that you've had in your own lives. I would love to hear from you if you have a journey that you would like me to share.
[00:34:29] I'm still working on the one to one interviews. We're getting closer, so that's really exciting.
[00:34:37] And I'll be posting another podcast in probably another week.
[00:34:45] Take care.
[00:34:47] Bye.
