Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Hi, everyone. This is Dawn Clem, and you are on my podcast, Milkweed and monarchs.
[00:00:07] Today, I'm going to be doing the part two episode of me living up in Iceland. It's quite the story, so it may not be for everyone, but nonetheless, it is a true story. It definitely impacted me in my life, and I think the story kind of lays to where we are right now as a society. And so I'm going to go ahead and share the story, and I'll also share my opinions, of course, at the end on how I feel like that things like this situation contributed to where we are today in this generation.
[00:00:52] So I have already told you that my roommate was unhappy with getting a roommate.
[00:01:00] I learned how to get along with her, but it wasn't a great situation. She really did not want me living there, and she did a lot of things to make me feel really uncomfortable. One of the worst things that she would do is she would go to the club at night and she would get drunk, and then she would bring someone home and they. They would proceed to have sex on the bottom bunk while I'm up on the top bunk. So I'm like, oh, my God, please, God, let me. Let me get through this. This is so uncomfortable. If you can even imagine. And I'm not one that speaks out right away. It usually takes me a little while. I'm a slow burning fuse, any of you that know me. But once the fuse hits the stick of dynamite, it's over. Okay? So I. That fuse was burning, I'm telling you. And I was unhappy about my living situation.
[00:02:08] I had gone back to the chief petty officer to see, is there any way I can move out? Is there another room available? There was nothing. But one of the corpsmen that I was working with in the clinic was married, and he was living in married housing with his wife. It was a two bedroom, and they didn't have any kids. So he said, hey, you know what? I'm going to go home and talk to my wife, and if at all possible, I'll see if she would mind if you came and lived with us. Even if it was just for a couple months until another room became available, I don't think it would be a problem. I said, oh, my gosh, I would be so grateful. That would be just the most awesome thing. So he did go home, and he checked with his wife. His name was Jonah and her name was Rosie. And they were wonderful to me. They really were so wonderful to me. And they did let me come and stay there until I could find another place to live. So I moved out. I know my roommate was happy about it, and I just continued on.
[00:03:23] So I'm in the clinic one day, and I'm working with another corpsman, and she said, hey, I know you like to get off base, and this weekend, a bunch of us are going to go hiking, and we're going to go up on the glacier. We're going to actually hike a glacier. Do you think that'd be something that you're interested in participating in? I'm like, oh, yeah, I. I'm in. I'm definitely in. I was really excited about the idea of hiking on a glacier.
[00:03:54] So Saturday comes and I meet the group in the parking lot, and there were seven or eight of us, I think, that were going, and it was going to be a fun day, so it took about an hour and a half just to drive to the location just where we were gonna park. And then it was quite a long hike after that. We went across the terrain pretty flat. But in case I didn't tell you this before, there really are no trees on Iceland.
[00:04:30] They had used them a lot. The Vikings are the ones that first settled that island, and so they used a lot of the trees to build a their ships back then. And once the trees were cut down, they didn't replace them or replant. And it's really windy where it's at, and it's cold, so not many of the trees actually grew back. And so it's kind of a barren land. And then the. It's very rocky, so it's big boulders, and you have to walk over the boulders from. Just from the barracks to the chief's club, where we would eat, or to the movie theater. And that's why people were slipping a lot, because in the winter, it was so icy and the ice just stuck to those rocks.
[00:05:25] So here we are. We're walking across that same terrain to get to a glacier. And we found out that while we were walking that we were going to have to walk across a river, too. It was still really cold there, but like anything, you get so acclimated to the weather, you don't even notice it after a while. So a lot of us even took our boots off and walked through the ice cold water to the other side and then put our boots back on, and we just kept walking.
[00:05:59] And then, sure enough, you started to see this incline. Now the glacier looked just like a mountain with green sod on it. That's how I would describe it. And then there was a lot of rock ledge in there. But in between were these veins of blue ice. And that's how you knew it was a glacier from the ice. So we all hiked up, and it was so slippery. It was so slippery. I'm surprised none of us got hurt. But we all walked up to a ledge where we could sit down on, and we were pretty proud of ourselves. You can imagine. We were up there celebrating because it was a big deal to get up there. And we had packed a little lunch, so we ate the lunch and everything, and. And it was just great.
[00:06:54] And I was getting to know the people. Cause most of them, I didn't know that well. I only knew the one woman that worked with me in the clinic, so her boyfriend was a chief petty officer, like I was telling you. And while we were there, he said, hey, I got a question for you. And I go, okay. You know, not thinking anything of it at the time. He says, hey, I heard that you used to live with Kim so and so. And I go, yeah, it really wasn't a great living situation, but it's been better since I moved out. As a matter of fact, she asked me to be on her bowling team, which is true. So funny, the minute I moved out, then she felt like we could get along. Isn't that funny? So I was happy to join your bowling team. And I thought, okay, you know, we're gonna get past this crap, right? That's how I was thinking about it. And I was telling him, yeah, it wasn't. It was an unfortunate situation, but it seems to be getting better now. I'm on her bowling team. We bowl every Thursday night, and. And it really hasn't been so bad.
[00:08:07] So he takes a step back, and he says, well, there's something that I heard about her. And I go, what is that? He said, I heard she's gay. I heard she's a lesbian.
[00:08:20] Now, you have to remember, this is a time where we really did not even accept gays. I mean, I think gay was like a swear word almost. You know what I mean? We didn't accept them.
[00:08:32] We didn't. They were definitely considered misfits in our society, and they were not allowed to be in the military at all. Clinton is the one that changed that. Clinton, when he was in office, came up with the don't ask, don't tell rule. Okay, so you were. It was against the rules of the military to be gay in the military because it was felt that they could compromise our situation in a time of war. If they were captured, it was felt like they would rat out the people. I don't even know where they came up with this, but this is what the thinking behind it was.
[00:09:20] So anyhow, he's asking me all these questions about her being gay, and I'm like, yeah, I think she is gay. And he says, well, you know, they're not allowed to be in the military. I said, yeah, I know that. But I had been in San Diego, and there was plenty of gay women there, too, and I didn't think anything of it. It is what it is. I mean, why are we worried about that? You know what I mean? That's how I still feel like that today. I mean, why are we worrying about that? Don't we have something better to worry about? There's so many problems nowadays, and that's something we're worrying about. No, we don't need to worry about it.
[00:09:59] So anyhow, he said, well, I'd like you to come in and talk to the senior chief petty officer. I go, about what? About the fact that you think she's gay. I go, I don't want to talk about that. I don't care. You know, I moved out. I've got a great place to live now. I'm on their bowling league. We've made peace with our living situation.
[00:10:25] It's all good. I don't want to meet with him. He said, well, really, you have to. It's your duty. I'm like, oh, my God, this is not gonna go well. This is not gonna go well.
[00:10:40] So we all packed up, we left, we walked back to the car, the truck. We all loaded up, and by now, my whole trip has been ruined, because all I can think about, I'm having complete anxiety. I can tell you that. Complete and anxiety. I remember it's 1980. Things looked a lot different 40 years ago than they do today.
[00:11:07] So I'm like, okay, just get home, get this off your mind, and pretend like it never happened, and hopefully you're not gonna hear from anybody.
[00:11:17] So I made it through the rest of the weekend, and I was still so excited that I got to climb on a glacier. That was like a milestone for me.
[00:11:26] So I was thinking, trying to think more about those kind of things. Well, sure enough, Monday comes around. I'm working in the clinic. I get a phone call from the senior chief petty officer. He says, don, can you come down to my office?
[00:11:43] I go, here we go. This cannot be happening. Why, God? Why?
[00:11:50] So I go down to his office, and he says, oh, I met with rich. Rich came to talk to me. He said that, you know, that Kim is a lesbian?
[00:12:01] I said, well, I don't know it for sure, but I think she could be. And he said, would you be willing to testify? I said, no, I'm not gonna testify against her. Really, to tell you the truth, I don't care. What difference does it make if she's doing a good job at her job that we need her to do here, what do we care what she does on her off hours? I really don't understand it. He says, don, we can't have him. It's breaking the laws of the military.
[00:12:38] I'm like, yeah, you can't argue with the law. It was a law, a rule, a law, whatever. The military code of justice is what it's called.
[00:12:50] So he says, it's breaking the code. And I'm like, yeah, I guess it is. I guess you're right. So you think she's gay? I said, yes, I do.
[00:12:59] And he said, would you be willing to testify? Go. I don't want to. I really don't want to. She's never done anything to me. He said, she needs to be discharged from the army. That's just the way it is. I mean, the Navy. Sorry, I wasn't in the army. He says, she needs to be discharged from the military. And that's just the way it is. That's our code of military conduct.
[00:13:24] So I'm like, okay, whatever.
[00:13:27] I leave. I go back. I'm a nervous wreck. I'm just so upset about the whole entire thing. I actually think I was crying because I felt so bad about the whole situation. I felt coerced, something that I really didn't like, because it was nothing that I would have ever initiated on my own. So it was a really uncomfortable situation, if you can imagine that.
[00:13:55] So this was a Monday.
[00:13:57] I didn't hear anything on Tuesday or Wednesday. And on Thursday was my bowling league. I said, I'm still going bowling. I'm gonna go.
[00:14:10] I haven't heard anything, so hopefully they're gonna let this go, and nothing's gonna come out of it.
[00:14:18] So I get over to the bowling alley, and they. My team was all there.
[00:14:28] And when I got there, Kim and her partner. I don't. I didn't know they were partners, but I found out that night they were.
[00:14:41] Took me aside, and they said, we want to talk to you. I'm like, oh, no.
[00:14:49] Well, the one thing I did not tell you previously, but when I was talking to the senior chief, and this is how he got me to actually tell him, is he said, no one will ever know that you were here. Your name will never be mentioned. You will never be in trouble. You. I just need you to tell the truth, because we need to get her out of the military. So I think that is why at that point, I agreed to tell the truth, because I figured, well, they're never gonna know it was that I had to tell, you know? So when I'm at the bowling alley and the two of them take me away, and they go, we know what you did. I was like, oh, my God.
[00:15:42] I go, oh, my God. All I could think of is, they're gonna beat the hell out of me and leave me for dead. Seriously. That's how I felt. I was scared to death.
[00:15:53] I said I didn't have any choice.
[00:15:57] They called me in, and actually, he said that you would never know.
[00:16:04] You can't believe them. You can't trust them. They're just telling you what you want to hear so that you'll rat us out. You ratted us out, and now we're probably going to get kicked out of the military. How does that make you feel?
[00:16:18] And I'm like, I feel terrible.
[00:16:21] It's not a situation I ever wanted to be in. I obviously don't care, because if I cared, why would I be on your bowling league?
[00:16:33] And the other, the. Not Kim, but her girlfriend said, yeah, I think that is true. That is what she said. She said she didn't care. I said, how do you know all that? We got the transcripts. I go, how would you get the transcripts? So apparently, they called them in to talk to them, and they had all of it written down or recorded as to what I had said, and they were allowed to listen to what I had said.
[00:17:04] And I was like, oh, my God.
[00:17:09] Oh, my God.
[00:17:12] I just was devastated in so many ways because I felt like I never would have initiated this.
[00:17:21] I never would have had. I really did not care. I mean, that's their private life. I get that it was against the military code, but it wasn't a something that I was doing wrong, so why did I have to worry about what they were doing wrong? It's not like they were stealing anything anyhow.
[00:17:44] It was awful. That's all I can tell you. I've never felt more uncomfortable in my entire life. I had the worst anxiety attack I've probably ever had. Ever.
[00:17:57] There might have been one other one, and I'll tell you that story later on, too, but this was definitely a bad anxiety attack.
[00:18:07] So, needless to say, I did not bowl that night. I went back to the barracks. After I talked to them, they let me go. They did kind of shove me around a little bit, and then they calmed down.
[00:18:22] And they basically decided without even my input, that they had to figure this out on their own.
[00:18:30] And I don't think they really blamed me for it because it was so obvious. I mean, I had said that and they heard what I said directly. So I was like, okay, I gotta go home. So I left and I went back to my room with Rosie and Jonah, and I got on the telephone and I called. I the chief petty officer who had taken me down to testify. I'm like, well, I hope you're happy, because I basically just got bullied. I'm scared to death now, and I don't care what you have to do, but you better find me a one way ticket off this island, because there's no way in hell that I am going to stay here under these circumstances. I am not staying here. And he's like, don, calm down. I go, how did they even know that I testified how? They said that my conversation was going to be private, and obviously it wasn't private at all. They actually heard what I had to say. I said, what the heck?
[00:19:40] I feel like you didn't even care about my safety, and now I'm worried about my safety, and I want to get off this island.
[00:19:52] He said, I'm gonna make a few calls tonight, and we'll be talking to you tomorrow about the situation.
[00:20:00] So I'm like, okay. I called my mom after that. I called my mom collect in the US. I was having a total meltdown. And she's like, just calm down. Let's just wait and see what happens, you know? Let's just get through this whole thing and see what happens. I can't imagine. She said that, they're not going to protect you, so just try to take a deep breath and get through the situation.
[00:20:31] So I was like, okay.
[00:20:34] So I went to work the next day.
[00:20:39] Nothing.
[00:20:40] Then I went to where it got. Had the weekend off. And believe me, I made sure that I went to the movies by myself. I mean, I was nowhere to be found. I was completely unavailable all weekend. I think I went on a USO tour. I might have gone into Reykjavik.
[00:20:58] I went to the movies by myself. I had learned how to be pretty good at doing things by myself up there. And thankfully, I did become so independent because that weekend, I made myself scarce.
[00:21:14] So Monday comes along, and I go back to work, and I'm thinking to myself, what the heck is going to happen? What is going to happen.
[00:21:26] And the chief petty officer calls me into the office and he says, don, I know you were scared, and I'm just calling to let you know you don't have anything to be worried about. We're going to be getting. Kim and her girlfriend are going to be leaving Iceland. And I said, did you? Are you going to discharge them? And he says, no, we're not going to discharge them. I think we're going to just discharge one of them, but the other one we're going to let stay in. We're going to let Kim stay in. And the other one we're probably going to discharge.
[00:22:00] So I'm like, okay.
[00:22:04] I mean, it's not great, but it seemed better. And I wasn't in a panic to get out of there anymore. I felt like at least they had my back a little bit. But it was.
[00:22:17] I mean, okay, so now here we are 40 years later, and I look back on this incident, and I think to myself, why? Why? Why?
[00:22:29] I mean, I think that don't ask, don't tell rule is kind of good. And I do understand some of it. Some of it. But I don't know. I just feel like part of the problem is this whole thing about judgment of people that are different from us.
[00:22:53] And I'm watching that unfold right now in the US, just the way that we're so divided as a country and how we say horrible things about each other. I mean, those are two candidates for office, for president and vice president on both sides say some of the worst things I could ever imagine people saying about each other. And we're supposed to be voting for one of them to be our president and vice president. And I keep thinking, why do we talk to each other like that?
[00:23:32] Why are we so judgmental? Why? I mean, I just hope that all this turmoil about sexuality and race and color and religion and, I mean, I know it's been going on since biblical times, and I get that, but does it really have to be like that? And then I just remember one of those major lessons that I learned to the first time when I was in boot camp and the swimming instructor was teaching me how to swim.
[00:24:14] And what I remember is kindness changes everything.
[00:24:19] And I think if we were a little bit kinder to each other, maybe we wouldn't be in this situation.
[00:24:27] I mean, I know there are some people that are innately bad, that are born that way, that there's something wrong with them, or they grow up in a situation that may turn them that way, but even that is so sad because if they would have had kindness out of the gate, would that really have happened?
[00:24:52] I don't know.
[00:24:54] It's just something to think about.
[00:24:57] And it is definitely something that changed my. This whole incident changed my whole perspective on life and how I deal with people on an individual basis. Now, I know that was kind of a tough story to listen to, but it is the truth. It's a truthful story. And I don't know how many other people that may have happened to, you know, because when the military get it, got it in its mind that somebody was doing something wrong, they were going to dig, dig till they got to the bottom of it, and there were going to be casualties, so to speak.
[00:25:48] So I have a clear conscience about what I did and how I acted. And I think that that is okay, that I did the best I could.
[00:26:06] Thank you for listening to my story today.
[00:26:10] If you have a story that you want to share with me, or if you. You have a question for me, or if you just want to contact me, please go to my website. It's milkmon.com. milkmon.com. All one word at the very bottom. If you scroll down, there's a little grid that you can ask a question, fill out your name, or you have my contact information there. And I would love to hear from you. It's August 7 today, so we got about another week, and I'm going to start one on one interviews, so that's going to be exciting.
[00:26:50] Until the next time.
